Writing Fight Scenes: Introduction
Nov. 16th, 2010 03:56 amNOTE: You can now buy the revised and expanded version of this blog series as an ebook, in both epub and mobi formats.
This month's SF Novelists post is a bit different, because it's the launching point for a series I'll be doing over here on LJ for the next indeterminate amount of time.
At Sirens this past month, I did a workshop on writing fight scenes, and promised those who weren't able to attend that I'd be posting the material online. That begins today, and will be continuing for a while. Check out the aforementioned post for sort of an anecdote-cum-mission statement, then head behind the cut for a bit more about me and why I'm interested in this subject, plus an outline of how I'm going to approach this.
It probably goes back to seeing The Princess Bride at the tender age of six. Inigo Montoya was always my favorite character; I pretty much don't remember a time when I didn't want to learn fencing, and it's also his fault I studied Spanish. For years the only "fencing" I knew was what my friends and I figured out with wooden dowel rods, but in high school my local rec center offered a free class, and me and several of those friends started taking it. The instructor attempted to teach us FIE style, but we wouldn't stay linear for love or money, nor would we leave our off-hands out of it, so finally he said "screw it" and began teaching us period rapier-and-dagger styles instead. (Which is what most of us wanted anyway.) He also taught us the basics of stage combat: how to slap and punch and kick someone without actually doing them harm.
This all fed into a pre-existing fondness I had for fight scenes, both in books and in movies. As a teenager, I was a big R. A. Salvatore fan, with all those lovingly-detailed duels, and also a fan of action movies. Learning to fence, and learning to do stage combat, got me thinking about what makes such a scene cool. And, as detailed in my SF Novelists post, I made use of it when I got to college. Getting down into the practical guts of fight choreography fed back into my writing, especially the doppelganger novels (the first of which I wrote while in college), and it's informed my thinking ever since.
So that's where I'm coming from: my background in the topic is as a writer, a fight choreographer, and a fan. Because of that, I'll be drawing from a wide range of examples as I write this series, including my own novels, plays I worked on, and books and movies that illustrate my points. Examples go better when you the audience are familiar with them, though, so here are a few key ones I'll be bringing up more than once:
What I'll do, in all likelihood, is divide this series into three rough stages. The first will be theoretical in nature, talking about the role a fight plays in the story. The second will be about the structure of the fight itself: practicalities of deciding what happens, and how. The third will be about getting the fight onto the page: craft-level issues of what to say about the combat. Each of those stages will probably have multiple posts. We may or may not have a running "sample scene" that gets developed during the course of the series; I did that for the workshop, and may repeat it here.
I'm not sure how long the entire series will take -- how many posts, and how often they will happen. Two a week sounds like a good thing to aim for, but we'll see how that fares through the holidays. Anyway, I'll group them all under a tag, so you can find the whole set easily if you want.
You are welcome at any point to ask questions, offer examples, correct me where I'm wrong, or hash out any scenes you're working on yourself. I'm more than happy to give any help I can.
This month's SF Novelists post is a bit different, because it's the launching point for a series I'll be doing over here on LJ for the next indeterminate amount of time.
At Sirens this past month, I did a workshop on writing fight scenes, and promised those who weren't able to attend that I'd be posting the material online. That begins today, and will be continuing for a while. Check out the aforementioned post for sort of an anecdote-cum-mission statement, then head behind the cut for a bit more about me and why I'm interested in this subject, plus an outline of how I'm going to approach this.
It probably goes back to seeing The Princess Bride at the tender age of six. Inigo Montoya was always my favorite character; I pretty much don't remember a time when I didn't want to learn fencing, and it's also his fault I studied Spanish. For years the only "fencing" I knew was what my friends and I figured out with wooden dowel rods, but in high school my local rec center offered a free class, and me and several of those friends started taking it. The instructor attempted to teach us FIE style, but we wouldn't stay linear for love or money, nor would we leave our off-hands out of it, so finally he said "screw it" and began teaching us period rapier-and-dagger styles instead. (Which is what most of us wanted anyway.) He also taught us the basics of stage combat: how to slap and punch and kick someone without actually doing them harm.
This all fed into a pre-existing fondness I had for fight scenes, both in books and in movies. As a teenager, I was a big R. A. Salvatore fan, with all those lovingly-detailed duels, and also a fan of action movies. Learning to fence, and learning to do stage combat, got me thinking about what makes such a scene cool. And, as detailed in my SF Novelists post, I made use of it when I got to college. Getting down into the practical guts of fight choreography fed back into my writing, especially the doppelganger novels (the first of which I wrote while in college), and it's informed my thinking ever since.
So that's where I'm coming from: my background in the topic is as a writer, a fight choreographer, and a fan. Because of that, I'll be drawing from a wide range of examples as I write this series, including my own novels, plays I worked on, and books and movies that illustrate my points. Examples go better when you the audience are familiar with them, though, so here are a few key ones I'll be bringing up more than once:
- The Princess Bride. I mentioned imprinting on it, right? The duel between Inigo and the Man in Black atop the Cliffs of Insanity is a very useful example for fight scene structure; I may also reference the fight with Fezzik, and Inigo's confrontation with Count Rugen. If you have for some reason never seen this movie, drop everything and go watch it now, you poor, deprived soul. :-)
- The Game of Kings, by Dorothy Dunnett. It contains the single best third-person omniscient fight scene I have ever read in a book. Hands down. It is also a fantastic book, one I'm loathe to spoil for people, but as it makes a very good illustrative example for how to do a fight scene on the page, I'll probably be referencing it during this sequence. I highly recommend the series. Her prose is a little opaque -- she tends to write around things, and you have to read between the lines to see what she isn't saying -- but it's absolutely worth the effort.
- My own first novel, findable either as Doppelganger (the old title) or as Warrior (the new title). I include this because, as the author, I know what I was trying to do, and why I used certain techniques to do it; I can go "behind the scenes" in a way that isn't possible with the previous two sources.
What I'll do, in all likelihood, is divide this series into three rough stages. The first will be theoretical in nature, talking about the role a fight plays in the story. The second will be about the structure of the fight itself: practicalities of deciding what happens, and how. The third will be about getting the fight onto the page: craft-level issues of what to say about the combat. Each of those stages will probably have multiple posts. We may or may not have a running "sample scene" that gets developed during the course of the series; I did that for the workshop, and may repeat it here.
I'm not sure how long the entire series will take -- how many posts, and how often they will happen. Two a week sounds like a good thing to aim for, but we'll see how that fares through the holidays. Anyway, I'll group them all under a tag, so you can find the whole set easily if you want.
You are welcome at any point to ask questions, offer examples, correct me where I'm wrong, or hash out any scenes you're working on yourself. I'm more than happy to give any help I can.
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Date: 2010-11-16 04:08 pm (UTC)Fight choreography is a nice (and different) angle to come at things from. I suspect that Salvatore is a bit of an influence on me as well, though mostly via The Crystal Shard and maybe the Dark Elf books, because I stopped reading him after those.
I should tell you some of the sillier stories from my FIE fencing classes sometime - I managed to break not one, but two swords in the course of matches with my friend Claire.
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Date: 2010-11-16 06:46 pm (UTC)Fencing stories are welcome! My own (admittedly small) class is notable for being populated solely by lefties, making me probably the only right-handed fencer in the world who feels weird facing off against another right-handed person.
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Date: 2010-11-16 05:03 pm (UTC)Too many fight scenes — particularly in martial arts films — ignore lethality. Hopefully, Our Gracious Hostess won't in this series... because she didn't in Doppelganger. One of her other examples — not so much.
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Date: 2010-11-16 06:51 pm (UTC)There is one glaring flaw in Dunnett's scene, which I presume you're referring to. I'll mention that in due course. Realism is a topic we'll be addressing anyway; true, most fight scenes are not realistic. Neither is most dialogue. They're both artfully crafted so as to heighten their effect.
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Date: 2010-11-16 07:40 pm (UTC)The Princess Bride is an interesting example of a movie in which the fights are playing with multiple levels of realism/non-realism: everything is physically possible, but not exactly likely except in a fairy-tale. Some characters don't play by fairy-tale rules; some do, and then change their minds.
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Date: 2010-11-16 07:43 pm (UTC)And since I operate in the spec fic arena, and particularly the fantasy one, there's also the factor that "realism" in the context of the setting may not be the same as realism in the real world. The fights in Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn came across very clearly as attempts to render wire-fu stunts on the page, with a magic system to explain why that was possible.
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Date: 2010-11-16 07:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-16 07:47 pm (UTC)physically possible
Date: 2010-11-18 09:40 pm (UTC)My sister has her students analyze movie scene for accuracy. There's the scene where the sword gets thrown into the air and then comes back down much later. One student calculated the speed with which it would have to launch (and, of course, land).
Not possible.
Re: physically possible
Date: 2010-11-18 09:42 pm (UTC)deadphysically possible.no subject
Date: 2010-11-16 05:29 pm (UTC)Getting to the adding to plot aspect, that also makes me think of the fight scenes that are desperate because our hero is completely outclassed. Such as Corwin fighting Benedict - there it is all about "how can I not be butchered before I blink".
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Date: 2010-11-16 06:53 pm (UTC)(A disengage is a tiny, tiny flick of a movement done in fencing: you drop your tip just under your opponent's blade and back up on the other side. Try doing that, subtly and with speed, with a blade that weighs three times as much. Uh-huh.)
But yes, we'll be discussing jargon, its uses and misuses. It'll be interesting to hear when people followed it, and when they didn't.
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Date: 2010-11-16 06:38 pm (UTC)I come more from an epic background (the Illiad and Song of the Nibelungs were among the first books I read) and sword fighting, but like you, I love writing fight scenes. A lot more than some emotional father/son conflict dialogue, I can tell you. ;) So it will be fun to compare notes, so to speak.
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Date: 2010-11-16 07:32 pm (UTC)I have noticed that in American movies that depict scenes of war there's been a big movement away from the "objective view," in which you can see exactly what's happening in a battle, and toward the "subjective view," in which you see just disconnected flashes of movement, an arm with a sword, a burst of light. I am much more a fan of being able to see what's going on (and not get nauseated by shakycam.)
Similarly, I've read fight scenes where you can follow what's objectively happening, and ones that are so interior that you really can't. One of the most interesting issues for me in writing fights, because I do like to know what's happening, is doing that when the characters aren't trained fighters or are in a berserker state or otherwise aren't following the action closely themselves.
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Date: 2010-11-16 07:40 pm (UTC)I almost made this a very long comment, but I'll rein myself in for now; pov will almost certainly get its own entire post.
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Date: 2010-11-16 07:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-16 07:45 pm (UTC)(Being roundabout so as to avoid spoilers, at least for the time being.)
And hey, the comment threads are there so people can pester me. :-)
Thanks so much for sharing this series!
Date: 2010-11-17 01:12 am (UTC)Anyway, heard about this through Twitter. Thanks again, Swan-Tower.
Best,
Anne*---
P.S. I got to say Hi to you in passing at WFC.
Re: Thanks so much for sharing this series!
Date: 2010-11-17 07:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-18 03:19 pm (UTC)OMG you have a Lymond tag; how I have to add you.
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Date: 2010-11-18 06:23 pm (UTC)I'll probably mention other good fights, yes -- not sure which ones. I just sort of grab examples as they come to me. :-)
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Date: 2010-11-18 04:30 pm (UTC)Shakatany
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