Why I Want to Hit Alfred, Lord Tennyson, by Marie Brennan, Age 29

[swan_tower]

Because the man keeps having bits of poetry that are allllllllllllmost what I want for the Victorian book, but not quite -- either because they don't contain any phrase I could use for a title, or because they go astray in some fashion that doesn't make them work. Take these two lines:

To change our dark Queen-city, all her realm
Of sound and smoke

It's got grit! And a city! And a Queen! Surely this will work, right?

Except that here's the full passage:

Take, read! and be the faults your Poet makes
Or many or few,
He rests content, if his young music wakes
A wish in you
To change our dark Queen-city, all her realm
Of sound and smoke,
For his clear heaven, and these few lanes of elm
And whispering oak.

In other words, yay nature. Which, no. There's what this book is about, and there's that passage, and the two are pretty much at opposite poles to one another.

The problem, I've decided, is that the Victorians are insufficiently angry. My impression is that they wrote about nature's beauty as a means of hiding from industrialization; what I want is poetry that is mad as hell about industrialization and not going to take it anymore. The few things I've found that come close to fitting that bill have failed to provide me with a good title quote.

So I keep searching. And I glare at Tennyson, because I just speed-read HIS COMPLETE POETIC WORKS and still don't have a title. <fume>

Comments

[bookblather.livejournal.com]

William Blake's a bit early, but I seem to recall he had some "FUCK YOU INDUSTRIALIZATION" poems going on.

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

He did.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

He's a bit early, as you say. I'd like to get a title from someone who published later than the 1820s (which knocks out most of the Romantics). I have taken a look at him, though; while none of the poems I sampled fit the bill, if I don't hit pay dirt soon I may start digging through his complete works.

[akashiver.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was going to pick out Blake as the king of the "Industrialism SUKZ" poets. He's also one of the few Romantics who didn't believe in the turn to Nature, because he wanted social change here & now. He thought Wordsworth was a twat.

I think it's pretty hard to find critiques of industry that don't simultaneously line up with celebrations of Nature. Romantic views was pretty powerful throughout the 19C (& remember, Tennyson himself is also a Romantic & a contemporary of Wordsworth etc.) If anything, Victorian poetry has a rep for being a bit more melancholy and a bit less practical than that of the revolutionary Romantics.

What about Wordsworth? The Prelude didn't come out 'til 1850, and its city passages are classic. They also involve using the memory of nature to steady oneself in the city, as opposed to running screaming into the trees.

Then again, there's also social protest poems.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

You might want to ask Adam Robert, the British writer and academic. That's his speciality period and he's likely to know about any dissenting or alternative poets.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

I may do. The Victorians were a wordy bunch of bastards, and if I have to keep trawling like this it'll take me all year.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

You can use a line of poetry out of context, and then reviewers explain how you are being cleverly ironic, which is nice.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

Heh. :-)

[fjm.livejournal.com]

The problem I think is that the Victorians weren't angry about industrialisation. The utopian socialists (ie Morris) would have preferred a artisan revolution, but otherwise what you mostly get is nimbyism, rather helped by the fact that the factories are mostly in the North and that the railways meant middle class man could live out in the suburbs and mostly ignore all the industrialisation that made this possible. Among the working class radicals, although they bemoaned its effects, industrialisation was seen as the means to secure a greater liberty. The aristocracy of labour were the engineers, not exactly the men to write poetry angry at the engine.

[mindstalk.livejournal.com]

INDUSTRIALIZATION IS AWESOME IT GETS US OFF THE FARM
LOOK GASLAMPS, MY QUEEN, I CAN SEE!

Ahem.
It's from the 13th-14th century steamless 'industrialization', but in attitude might be more what you're looking for?
http://mindstalk.net/blacksmith
If not, still, this coming out of the 14th century was a big random surprise.

[sacredchao23.livejournal.com]

And those who tended to criticize the excesses of industry tended to think that it simply needed to be bridled. Carlyle believes that as long as factories owners are the responsible "Captains of Industry," all will be well. Similar views are found in Gaskell, and to some extent Dickens. The one writer who comes to mind as strongly opposed to industrialization is Ruskin, but who isn't generally known for his poetry, (he did write some, I'm just not familiar with it.)

There is a paradoxical sense of nostalgia in the Victorian age. Plenty of writers (particularly novelists) try to imagine a world previous to the steam-engine, while at the same time being quite excited by progress.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

I guess I really meant urbanization more than industrialization. My dream is to find a perfect line of poetry about London, one that captures its gritty dirty engine-ness, while still celebrating the city despite its flaws.

Yeah, I'm not asking much.

[celestinenox]

Though, Of Sound and Smoke would be a pretty cool title, in my opinion. Which is quite humble.

[newsboyhat.livejournal.com]

I was just thinking this :)

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

This is where we run into problems of pattern. I have three Onyx Court novel titles already, and they share a set of characteristics, which means I feel a very strong pressure to find a fourth title that will conform. One of those characteristics -- the one that, in my opinion, helps make these titles distinct -- is that they all contain verbs.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Hopkins should fit the bill.

[sacredchao23.livejournal.com]

She might have to bend her criteria a little to include Hopkins. While he wrote in the tail end of the nineteenth century, his work wasn't published until 1918. If I remember right Madame Brennan wanted work that was current in the period.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

I have one possible excerpt from the stuff of his I read, but while I might use it as an epigraph, it didn't really have a title quote in it.

[sacredchao23.livejournal.com]

You might want to take a look at "The Factory" (http://www.people.iup.edu/ghimes/miscpoem/factory.html) by Letitia Elizabeth Landon (I apologize for the ugly version on that site). Its not a great poem, not even really a good one, but there are a few good lines taken in isolation. Its early, 1835, so its not technically Victorian (depending on who you ask). Still it might have something you'd be happy with.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. The first few lines were promising -- but you weren't kidding when you said it wasn't a great poem. :-)

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

That's funny, I wanted to hit him Tuesday, for the scene in "Guinevere" where Arthur shows up at the convent, harangues Guen for 75 lines about How She Has Destroyed The Kingdom, and then says "But I'm not here to condemn you, I'm here to forgive you before i go out to kill that Mordred kid or die" without EVER ONCE MENTIONING HIS OWN INFIDELITY.

Oh, Arthur. Fail.

Matthew Arnold, on the other hand, gives even Iseult of Brittany agency and a subject position. She's kind of glad Tristen is dead and it's quiet, so she can catch up on her knitting and play with the kids.

*g*

[mindstalk.livejournal.com]

Is that a Tennyson innovation? Arthur is faithful in all the versions I know, IIRC.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

I always want to hit Lancelot for the bit at the end of "The Lady of Shalott" -- okay, I guess he doesn't know what's up with the dead chick, but "she has a lovely face" as a response to her death is just, NO.

<sigh>

[lady-puck9999.livejournal.com]

We just started talking about Victorian poetry in my Victorian lit class, and yes, they used poetry as an escape from the Industrial Revolution. My professor also pointed out that they were probably the first generation of writers and poets to see what they were doing as redundant and kind of useless, serving no purpose. Up until then, people had viewed their art as a necessary means of self expression, and a vital part of society.

So Victorian poets kind of muddled around, making pretty things, not really sure why they were doing it.

[mindstalk.livejournal.com]

the first generation of writers and poets to see what they were doing as redundant and kind of useless, serving no purpose.

Why would they think that?