'puter troubles, desktop edition

[swan_tower]

It never rains but it pours.

Remember how my laptop was going kaput a while ago, and I asked for tablet advice? (Thanks for all the responses, btw. I ended up going with a Google Nexus, and I'm quite pleased with it. In fact, that's what I'm writing this post on.)

Well, my desktop has been acting strangely, to the point where I think I should look into getting a new one. The current one is pretty elderly, and I think I'd rather make the switch before it goes completely belly-up.

So now I'm looking for opinions on that end of the spectrum. I'm a Windows user (please don't try to get me to convert), and 90% of the work done on that machine falls into the categories of word processing and internet, so I don't need anything massive. I am running Lightroom these days, though, and I've found that sometimes I can't even play Steam games on the thing because they're too advanced for its graphics card; ergo, I'm likely to aim a bit higher this time than my usual bare-bones build. Current machine is a Dell, as was its predecessor; I've been happy with them, but I haven't been keeping up with the state of the art, and I don't know whether I should be looking at other manufacturers.

Corollary question: Windows 8? kniedzw tells me I will haaaaaaaaaaaate it, because I started computing back in the days of DOS, and object to operating systems that try to keep me from rummaging around in their guts. I'd be interested in feedback from people who have used it at all.

Comments

[choirwoman]

You'll probably hate me for this because I'm the 17564th person saying it, but have you considered Linux if you want an operating system that doesn't try to keep you from rummaging around in its guts? I've been avoiding any variety of Windows since 1995 and never missed it at all. It's not "only a tech toy, can't get actual work done" any more, hasn't been for years in fact.

(and do you realise that your comments section is white text on white background? Or is that just me?)

[swan_tower]

Weird -- the white-on-white thing is new, I think. (At least, I hadn't noticed it before.) I'll have to poke at that and see what's going on.

I don't run Linux because there are certain programs I like that don't work in Linux, and I don't want to mess with an emulator.

[alecaustin.livejournal.com]

Windows 8 defaults to an awful tablet/Xbox-ey UI, though you can dig in and get to a Windows-7 esque layer if you want. I would personally go with Windows 7 if you can.

As for hardware, I dunno what the right approach is there, though I'm going to need to be looking for a new rig myself fairly soon, as my old video card turns on all its fans when I play... Diablo 3. And Diablo 3 is not a terribly taxing game by modern standards.

[fhtagn.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Windows 8 is ... horrible. It has two distinct user-interface styles existing simultaneously, with some features only available in one or the other. At its core, it runs well and smoothly, but the actual UI is a nightmare.

If you're happy with Dell, it's worth looking at their "Dell Outlet" which sells refurbished machines ie. former display models, models where a few bits have needed to be replaced etc. In the UK at least they get all the mandatory sales law protections and warranty whilst generally being about 40% cheaper than an otherwise arguably pristine machine where you're paying for unopened packaging.

[benbenberi.livejournal.com]

Windows 8 is horrible, but I'm told it's possible to put on a skin that looks like Win7 & gives you back a proper start menu, desktop etc. Unfortunately new Windows machines all come with Win 8 these days, no way to avoid it if you want new hardware. There are rumors Microsoft is going to release an update that lets you get rid of some of the more ghastly features of the interface, but no date announced for that.

[jmpava.livejournal.com]

I got a new laptop a few months back and got Win8 on it deliberately to get used to it (I have 7 on my work machine). You can still access everything you used to be able to, the ingrained search is actually very quick and useful if you need it and it is a lot stabler and reliable then prior Windows OS's. A lot of people get stuck on the metro 'desktop' thingy and it's... weird. I don't use it, but Cora has actually beat it into shape and converted it to her will - she's good like that. But there's no requirement to use it at all. I guess I just don't find Windows 8 actually hiding that much more then I used to - the task manager has far more information, for example. There's been some crazy automatic stuff like driver and printer setup, network sharing (seriously, there's some crazy awesome network sharing stuff available that Cora and I are loving the heck out of) and remote desktop never dies on me (yes, this was a problem before). Yeah, there's no start menu, and if you use standard desktop mode (not the metro layout thing) that's the most notable thing. But the integrated charm search thingy works well for that... Or just browse through explorer if that's the type of person you are.

I mean, yeah, there are definitely some REALLY weird design choices but just know that the metro tablet view thing is NOT mandatory. I basically never use it and there's no requirement to. And if you can get past those UI aspects, the actual 'doing' stuff is better, so far, IMO.

[ephermata.livejournal.com]

For hardware, my HP desktop has been running for ~3.5 years without a hitch.

You can probably run Steam games on medium settings with a low-cost graphics card. Just be careful about the power requirements, since at some point graphics cards start needing bigger power supplies that are not found in typical mini-towers.

I'm running Win8 on my non-touch laptop. As others have said, you can mostly avoid the Metro Start menu in the stock Win8 install. The main thing to understand is that the hardware Windows key is pretty important - hit it to get to the "start menu" and hit Windows-D to get to the Desktop.

It still has cmd.exe and Control Panel. If you want to rummage, the bits are there.

If you want to add a start button replacement, I hear good things about these guys but haven't tried them http://www.stardock.com/

There has been significant work and improvement "under the hood," so I'd give Win8 a shot. Disclosure: I work at Microsoft.

[rymrytr.livejournal.com]

I'm so old, I long for the days of W98SE...

Anyway, I wonder if it will come down to the same thing as before. Those of us that don't change to Win8 will find that we must because MS will not support Win7 someday... as they have done in the past?

[icedrake.livejournal.com]

I've heard good stories about Dell and I've heard terrifying ones. There seems to be not much in the middle. Just hope you don't need to send it in for service and you're generally OK. Have you considered getting a local computer store to build you one from scratch? Any sort of upgrades from the Dell or HP configuration tools tend to be overpriced in my experience.

(also, definitely Win7 over Win8, and what's your budget?)

[aishabintjamil.livejournal.com]

My employer made a decision at the corporate level that we will not install Windows 8. We run 7, and are going to sit tight and hope that whatever follows 8 will be more usable. That's all the recommendation I need to avoid it when the current laptop expires and I need to upgrade (still running XP right now).

I've had good success with Dells, but I'm not a power-gamer. My wife bought a gaming-optimized PC because she plays lot of on-line games (Everquest, City of Heroes, etc.) made by Ibuypower, which has been OK. The fan has gotten noisy lately, but it is 2 years old and lives in a house full of cats. I should probably open it up and clean things out.

My last 2 laptops and our last last 2 desktops have come from tigerdirect.com. I recommend them highly for price and selection. I've never had occasion to deal with customer service.

[spiffikins]

I have used windows 8 for a grand total of maybe...45 minutes on two separate occasions and I hate it :)

My friend has it, and says it's fine if you go into the lower level settings and turn off all the "windows 8 things" and make it look/act like Windows 7.

I have heard that Microsoft is giving up on shoving this new interface down everyone's throats, and is releasing a new version shortly (or a service pack on steroids) that will switch back to the standard Start menu interface.

I think the default Win8 interface *might* be potentially ok on a tablet, where you have a tiny screen and want to maximize whatever app you're using to the full size of the screen - but as a desktop o/s without a touch screen? Needs to go away now, before I killit with fire.

[eve-prime.livejournal.com]

My employer has decided likewise -- our IT staff doesn't like Windows 8, they don't want to inflict it on the rest of us, and they don't want to have to live through the experience of getting us to accept it.

[leatherdykeuk.livejournal.com]

Yes. This. Go local and get a build-from-parts. Tell them you want the best spec for your budget and that's what you'll get.

[j.s. bangs (from livejournal.com)]

(Disclosure: I also work at MS.)

I have two machines with Win8, one a tablet, and one a standard laptop. On the tablet, Win8 is fantastic, the Metro UI looks great, and I have no complaints at all. On the laptop... truth be told I basically never use the actual "Win8" parts of the OS. 99% of my time is spent in Desktop mode, which looks exactly like Win7. I have no use for the shiny new bits, but to their credit they don't get in my way, either.

All of the same settings and fiddly bits from Win7 are still there. Nothing has been hidden or made unavailable.

I'm pretty darn sure that MS is not planning on releasing a pack to convert Win8 machines back to Win7-style UI. That said, I work very far from the Windows division, and they could surprise me.

All said: I wouldn't let the FUD surrounding Win8 deter you from getting a machine that has Win8 on it. At worst, you'll just spend all of your time in Desktop mode, where the most radically changed parts of the UI get out of your way.

[bryant]

I currently recommend Dell Alienware X51 desktops. Reasonably priced, and very small -- they're about the size of a gaming console. The entry level model will run you $650 right now, it'll do all the word processing and Web you need, and it'll be capable of running anything released this year although you won't get insanely high frame rates.

michele_blue had a problem with the wireless (endemic on the early models) and Dell sent someone to the house to fix it; you get a year of in-home service on the basic warrantee.

[cepetit.myopenid.com (from livejournal.com)]

Really, don't worry much about the system unit box, yet.

Worry about the keyboard, the pointing device (trackball or, if you still prefer using shoulder muscles for fine-motor tasks, mouse), and the display first. Once you have those figured out to your satisfaction, worry about the system unit.

Much of what you want in a system unit will depend on the combination of price and features among the three acceptable brands for those who don't do their own hardware maintenance: HP, Lenovo, and Dell. (That's not to say that one must stick to those brands -- if one can fiddle with the internals, one can make an Acer, among others, work reasonably well -- just that one must be prepared to Wield the Screwdriver. OTOH, I have soldering scars from building an Altair-5000... not quite forty years ago, before there was an Apple.) And when you're ready to buy, go to the respective manufacturers' websites and look at their clearance deals first; if nothing else, that will be great leverage for dealing with any other vendor!

If you actually want to try before you buy, your best bet is to toodle on down to Frye's in Palo Alto and play with the display units. Just don't expect to find what you need in stock, though: For some reason, that particular Frye's is often out of stock of the good and/or on-sale stuff, even though it's their flagship store. Maybe it's the Stanford students and staff running around there...

As far as OSs go, Windows 8 is JAG (Just Another GUI). If whatever deity is out there had meant us to rely solely upon GUIs, It wouldn't have invented the command line. Or punch cards. Windows 8 has its annoyances, but they're all fixable. Remember, everyone always customizes their new car slightly, such as putting a scrap of carpet in the former ashtray to keep coins from rattling; some add-ons and subtract-froms are to be expected (thus my distain for the various Apple OSs, because they make that very necessary task a lot harder and more expensive than it needs to be).

[unquietsoul5.livejournal.com]

My wife specifically went for Win7 when she built her current desktop last year, because of all the bad stuff going on with Win8.

MS is pretending they can fix Win8 with a patch in the near future to make it look more like Win7 etc al but word is that the patch will be pretty much appearance and no real depth or capability fixes so it will still be anti-working in the guts.

The problem is both MS and Apple are trying their hardest to make machines black boxes that require a secret priesthood controlled by them to actually create new things or do useful stuff below the glossy top end. They really want a variation of the old 'Time Share' Networking where they control what is going on in the machine and everything else requires paying them big money to rent from them rather than truly own your machine.